Travis Yost: The Line Matching Game

like most play-off success, I think line matching only truley works when you have a solid third line (and even better a 4th line) to use.

time and time again, you see the top two lines of teams cancel each other out so to speak

If your third line is a good/great checking line, they can be matched against the openents top line, leaving the second line against 'weaker' oponents.

[Edit] ..... apparently it's a slow day today Travis ....

On Topic - Great post, by why no Sens playoff coverage... oh, right.

Off Topic - It's funny to see the MTL fans call TBL fans babies for crying about the missed/blown calls. I seem to remember last year's playoffs were Sens fans had to listen to 'Zib kicked it in' and 'the face-off was on the wrong side'. Geez

On Topic - Great post, by why no Sens playoff coverage... oh, right.

Off Topic - It's funny to see the MTL fans call TBL fans babies for crying about the missed/blown calls. I seem to remember last year's playoffs were Sens fans had to listen to 'Zib kicked it in' and 'the face-off was on the wrong side'. Geez
- KarlKarlsson

typical

Line-matching or not, the Flyers need to get more shots through if they're going to compete. The Rangers block so many shots, it's insane.

On Topic - Great post, by why no Sens playoff coverage... oh, right.

Off Topic - It's funny to see the MTL fans call TBL fans babies for crying about the missed/blown calls. I seem to remember last year's playoffs were Sens fans had to listen to 'Zib kicked it in' and 'the face-off was on the wrong side'. Geez
- KarlKarlsson

Every fan base would do the exact same thing

On Topic - Great post, by why no Sens playoff coverage... oh, right.

Off Topic - It's funny to see the MTL fans call TBL fans babies for crying about the missed/blown calls. I seem to remember last year's playoffs were Sens fans had to listen to 'Zib kicked it in' and 'the face-off was on the wrong side'. Geez
- KarlKarlsson

i know. montreal fans= annoying.
hope boston sweeps them so they can go home and shut up.

Line-matching or not, the Flyers need to get more shots through if they're going to compete. The Rangers block so many shots, it's insane.
- Flyers_V88

Ottawa needs to block more shots next year. We were near the bottom of the league if I remember correctly.

Think it was Sens_Army who mentioned this but I'm really liking the Spezza to St.Louis for Shattenkirk.

Ottawa needs to block more shots next year. We were near the bottom of the league if I remember correctly.

Think it was Sens_Army who mentioned this but I'm really liking the Spezza to St.Louis for Shattenkirk.


- Erik6Karlsson5

Ottawa needs to block more shots next year. We were near the bottom of the league if I remember correctly.

Think it was Sens_Army who mentioned this but I'm really liking the Spezza to St.Louis for Shattenkirk.


- Erik6Karlsson5

If Shats is even slightly available, you'll have tons of competition.

If Shats is even slightly available, you'll have tons of competition.
- Rocktane

who's gonna be willing to give up an asset like spezza?

st louis is a "win now" team.....picks and prospects won't get it done

Ottawa needs to block more shots next year. We were near the bottom of the league if I remember correctly.

Think it was Sens_Army who mentioned this but I'm really liking the Spezza to St.Louis for Shattenkirk.


- Erik6Karlsson5

But wait. I thought the Sens plan was to become a team like St. Louis. Just good two way forwards. Now they want to add a Spezza? The all-mighty defensive liability?

If our "plan" is to become a team like St. Louis, why don't we keep the piece they are looking to complete their roster with.

But wait. I thought the Sens plan was to become a team like St. Louis. Just good two way forwards. Now they want to add a Spezza? The all-mighty defensive liability?

If our "plan" is to become a team like St. Louis, why don't we keep the piece they are looking to complete their roster with.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

don't remember anyone saying we were trying to be like St. Louis, but to your point..........

St Louis is in a position to win NOW, so a guy like spezza helps them NOW.

When Ottawa is where St. Louis is NOW, spezza will probably be 35-36, broken down even more then he is now, and we'll be HATING the fact that he's eating up 7+ mil of our cap, preventing us from getting rid of him, or bringing anyone else in.

getting rid of spezza has more to do with where the team is currently, and when they're likely to be contenders, IMO, then it has to do with spezza himself.

don't remember anyone saying we were trying to be like St. Louis, but to your point..........

St Louis is in a position to win NOW, so a guy like spezza helps them NOW.

When Ottawa is where St. Louis is NOW, spezza will probably be 35-36, broken down even more then he is now, and we'll be HATING the fact that he's eating up 7+ mil of our cap, preventing us from getting rid of him, or bringing anyone else in.

getting rid of spezza has more to do with where the team is currently, and when they're likely to be contenders, IMO, then it has to do with spezza himself.
- sensarmy_11

People always throw out Boston, St. Louis, and LA as examples of teams with centres that don't necessarily put up huge points, but play a solid 200 foot game. I'm pretty sure I could compile at least 20 posts over the last month supporting that. It seems the general consensus (not everyone, but probably over 50% of the posters here) is that we should become a defence first team, like those teams.

I thought those teams were great because they lacked the "Jason Spezzas". Now people say those teams want Jason Spezza? I do feel like I'm trolling a bit here, but it's fairly comical reading in my opinion.

The Sens just finished a 3 year rebuild and if we keep Spezza we are not competing for another 4-5 years, by your estimation? We had a sub par year, but we aren't that far off. Especially in a crappy Eastern Conference. Trading Spezza puts us in that 4-5 year wait, not by keeping him.

And not to mention the other "trade proposal" here was to Edmonton.

So Spezza is either being traded to St. Louis because they are ready to win now or Edmonton because they aren't ready and need veteran presence. But being Ottawa who is behind St. Louis and in front of Edmonton in terms of team development is a silly idea.

People always throw out Boston, St. Louis, and LA as examples of teams with centres that don't necessarily put up huge points, but play a solid 200 foot game. I'm pretty sure I could compile at least 20 posts over the last month supporting that. It seems the general consensus (not everyone, but probably over 50% of the posters here) is that we should become a defence first team, like those teams.

I thought those teams were great because they lacked the "Jason Spezzas". Now people say those teams want Jason Spezza? I do feel like I'm trolling a bit here, but it's fairly comical reading in my opinion.

The Sens just finished a 3 year rebuild and if we keep Spezza we are not competing for another 4-5 years, by your estimation? We had a sub par year, but we aren't that far off. Especially in a crappy Eastern Conference. Trading Spezza puts us in that 4-5 year wait, not by keeping him.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

if you honestly think the sens aren't "that far off", then there is no point in arguing about this.

i personally feel that, even with spezza, they're a MINIMUM of 3 years away from truly being able to be a contending team. i'm not just talking making it in teh 8th spot, and praying for a miracle run here. i'm talking division champs, legitimate shot of going to the finals.

as to your other points......

st. louis - saying they're successful and have good 200 foot centers, is not the same as saying ottawa is trying to model their team after st louis. the teams play COMPLETELY different systems. st louis plays a stay back, defense first system, so having spezza (who's ALL offense) is something they lack. ottawa plays a puck possession, run and gun style, and have NO PROBLEM scoring goals, but lack the ability to play well in their own end.

edmonton - they lack both veteran presence, and depth at center. spezza provides both those things. he doesnt' necessarily help them be contenders, but he helps them take that next step, which they need. ottawa can take that next step without spezza, cuz they have depth at center, plus they'll fill other holes with the return for spezza.

your opinion on moving spezza is very obvious, and it's giving you tunnel vision. you're completely incapable of seeing the VERY OBVIOUS advantages of moving him.

if you honestly think the sens aren't "that far off", then there is no point in arguing about this.

i personally feel that, even with spezza, they're a MINIMUM of 3 years away from truly being able to be a contending team. i'm not just talking making it in teh 8th spot, and praying for a miracle run here. i'm talking division champs, legitimate shot of going to the finals.

as to your other points......

st. louis - saying they're successful and have good 200 foot centers, is not the same as saying ottawa is trying to model their team after st louis. the teams play COMPLETELY different systems. st louis plays a stay back, defense first system, so having spezza (who's ALL offense) is something they lack. ottawa plays a puck possession, run and gun style, and have NO PROBLEM scoring goals, but lack the ability to play well in their own end.

edmonton - they lack both veteran presence, and depth at center. spezza provides both those things. he doesnt' necessarily help them be contenders, but he helps them take that next step, which they need. ottawa can take that next step without spezza, cuz they have depth at center, plus they'll fill other holes with the return for spezza.

your opinion on moving spezza is very obvious, and it's giving you tunnel vision. you're completely incapable of seeing the VERY OBVIOUS advantages of moving him.
- sensarmy_11

I see the argument for moving him. Especially if a package comes along like some of the generous ones I have seen on these boards. It's my opinion that we won't get a package like that, which makes moving him a less successful venture.

It's interesting that you brought up that this team has no problem scoring goals. That may have something to do with Spezza no? He did finish 2nd on team scoring and 1st among forwards. I don't think it's unrealistic to think if he is moved (and judging by many depth charts on these boards not even replaced by a forward not already in the organization) that scoring may not come as easily. Our defence was a mess, but not unfixable. Especially if a depth guy is brought in and one or two guys play a bit better than this season.

I just find some of the trade scenarios and why Spezza should be moved a little comical. Like at least stay consistent. Your expanding reasoning for St.Louis and Edmonton, while separate, make some sense, together one after the other looks silly. Agree or disagree, but I don't think that makes me have tunnel vision. I see the potential gain by moving him. I just don't think we will get a great package. I see this team being ready to compete in a year or two. In my opinion, we don't have to go through another rebuild phase.

However, at the end of the day, if Spezza is moved, it's purely for budgetary reasons.

if you honestly think the sens aren't "that far off", then there is no point in arguing about this.

i personally feel that, even with spezza, they're a MINIMUM of 3 years away from truly being able to be a contending team. i'm not just talking making it in teh 8th spot, and praying for a miracle run here. i'm talking division champs, legitimate shot of going to the finals.

as to your other points......

st. louis - saying they're successful and have good 200 foot centers, is not the same as saying ottawa is trying to model their team after st louis. the teams play COMPLETELY different systems. st louis plays a stay back, defense first system, so having spezza (who's ALL offense) is something they lack. ottawa plays a puck possession, run and gun style, and have NO PROBLEM scoring goals, but lack the ability to play well in their own end.

edmonton - they lack both veteran presence, and depth at center. spezza provides both those things. he doesnt' necessarily help them be contenders, but he helps them take that next step, which they need. ottawa can take that next step without spezza, cuz they have depth at center, plus they'll fill other holes with the return for spezza.

your opinion on moving spezza is very obvious, and it's giving you tunnel vision. you're completely incapable of seeing the VERY OBVIOUS advantages of moving him.
- sensarmy_11

you REALLY like capital letters don't you ...... except you missed the CAPITAL S and L on St. Louis ...... sorry man, I'm just bustin' yer chops

I'm obviously on the same ship as Gordo on this point. IMO, this team is not too far off the teams like Montreal and TB - nearing 100 pt. seasons.....

Murray appears ready to allow his young defense core to develop, rather than make a drastic move to bring in a #2. I look for him to bring in a new version of Methot - a second tier signing (kinda like MacArthur on the forward ranks) to play along with Karlsson next year.

There always risks with "ifs", but for the sake of it, let;s assume the folloiwng for next year:

- Spezza play 65-70 games next year and plays at the level he did at the end of this year
- we'll also assume that Hemsky stays to play with 'the best centre he has ever played with' and also plays 65-70 game
- Murray gets a steady guy to play with Karlsson
- barring one/some of them being traded to bring on the guy to play with Karlsson, the defense core (Weircoch, Cowan, Ceci, Gryba, Boro, Claesen) continue to improve
- likewise, barring one/some of them being traded to bring on the guy to play with Karlsson, improvement should be seen with the young forwards as well
(Stone, Zbad, Puemple, Hoffman, possibly Lazar, etc.) - we return to steady, above average goaltending
- the team relizes its mistakes of this year and plays a more defensively sound game, thereby eliminating the 50 goals that MacLean is targetting

I really see nothing drastic happening this summer, despite the clammoring in blogsites and The Sun..... the team will most likely resemble something like this...

Stone Spezza Hemsky
MacArthur Turris Ryan
Condra Zbad Hoffman (potentially Lazar)
Lazar Smith Neil
Greening/JGP

new guy Karlsson
Ceci Methot
Weircoch Cowan
Phillips Gryba/Boro

Now, there will be some tinkering, so some pieces may not be there, or combinations may not be the same, but I expect that 90% of those players will be on the team next season.

JUST SAYIN'

I see the argument for moving him. Especially if a package comes along like some of the generous ones I have seen on these boards. It's my opinion that we won't get a package like that, which makes moving him a less successful venture.

It's interesting that you brought up that this team has no problem scoring goals. That may have something to do with Spezza no? He did finish 2nd on team scoring and 1st among forwards. I don't think it's unrealistic to think if he is moved (and judging by many depth charts on these boards not even replaced by a forward not already in the organization) that scoring may not come as easily. Our defence was a mess, but not unfixable. Especially if a depth guy is brought in and one or two guys play a bit better than this season.

I just find some of the trade scenarios and why Spezza should be moved a little comical. Like at least stay consistent. Your expanding reasoning for St.Louis and Edmonton, while separate, make some sense, together one after the other looks silly. Agree or disagree, but I don't think that makes me have tunnel vision. I see the potential gain by moving him. I just don't think we will get a great package. I see this team being ready to compete in a year or two. In my opinion, we don't have to go through another rebuild phase.

However, at the end of the day, if Spezza is moved, it's purely for budgetary reasons.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

obviously moving him is contingent on getting a good return.

i'm 100% not on board if the return is a pick and a prospect......or something similar.

or for the lack of scoring. i think turris continuing to develop, as well as zibby given a bigger role, would probably come close to offsetting the goals we'd lose by moving spezza......even more so if you consider how many fewer goals we'll give up if we get a solid d-man in return.

i also agree that budget has a lot to do with moving him. you might like spezza as a player now, but i have no doubt that you'll hate him in 3-4 years when he'll be 35, likely no longer a very productive player, and making 7+ mil for another 3-4 years.

there are several examples of teams who held on to "star players" too long, and it ended up hurting them in the long run cuz they essentially got nothing (calgary - iginla, toronto - sundin, etc.). there are also some examples of teams moving star players at the right time, because the long term gain outweighed the short term pain (boston - thornton, anaheim - pronger, etc).

i truly feel that if spezza is kept, and extended, he'll fall into that first category, and the sens will be kicking themselves in 2-3 years for not moving him when they had the chance.

you REALLY like capital letters don't you ...... except you missed the CAPITAL S and L on St. Louis ...... sorry man, I'm just bustin' yer chops

I'm obviously on the same ship as Gordo on this point. IMO, this team is not too far off the teams like Montreal and TB - nearing 100 pt. seasons.....

Murray appears ready to allow his young defense core to develop, rather than make a drastic move to bring in a #2. I look for him to bring in a new version of Methot - a second tier signing (kinda like MacArthur on the forward ranks) to play along with Karlsson next year.

There always risks with "ifs", but for the sake of it, let;s assume the folloiwng for next year:

- Spezza play 65-70 games next year and plays at the level he did at the end of this year
- we'll also assume that Hemsky stays to play with 'the best centre he has ever played with' and also plays 65-70 game
- Murray gets a steady guy to play with Karlsson
- barring one/some of them being traded to bring on the guy to play with Karlsson, the defense core (Weircoch, Cowan, Ceci, Gryba, Boro, Claesen) continue to improve
- likewise, barring one/some of them being traded to bring on the guy to play with Karlsson, improvement should be seen with the young forwards as well
(Stone, Zbad, Puemple, Hoffman, possibly Lazar, etc.) - we return to steady, above average goaltending
- the team relizes its mistakes of this year and plays a more defensively sound game, thereby eliminating the 50 goals that MacLean is targetting

I really see nothing drastic happening this summer, despite the clammoring in blogsites and The Sun..... the team will most likely resemble something like this...

Stone Spezza Hemsky
MacArthur Turris Ryan
Condra Zbad Hoffman (potentially Lazar)
Lazar Smith Neil
Greening/JGP

new guy Karlsson
Ceci Methot
Weircoch Cowan
Phillips Gryba/Boro

Now, there will be some tinkering, so some pieces may not be there, or combinations may not be the same, but I expect that 90% of those players will be on the team next season.

JUST SAYIN'
- GadesnSens

my BIGGEST ( ) issue with spezza is when we go to re-sign him. we likely won't get as much at the deadline, at least not in terms of assets that help now, i think extending him is not the right decision (unless he signs short term, which he won't), so why not move him now, when the value will be better in terms of "right now" or "very near future" kind of assets.

to each their own, but i think this team is better served long term, by moving him this summer, and not being forced to sign him to a contract that will be "luongo bad" in a couple years.

my BIGGEST ( ) issue with spezza is when we go to re-sign him. we likely won't get as much at the deadline, at least not in terms of assets that help now, i think extending him is not the right decision (unless he signs short term, which he won't), so why not move him now, when the value will be better in terms of "right now" or "very near future" kind of assets.

to each their own, but i think this team is better served long term, by moving him this summer, and not being forced to sign him to a contract that will be "luongo bad" in a couple years.
- sensarmy_11

I understand/share your concerns with a long term contract with Spezza - and I wouldn't expect Murray to sign him to one. If he won't take a 4 year contract at $7M then I don't like the deal.

I understand/share your concerns with a long term contract with Spezza - and I wouldn't expect Murray to sign him to one. If he won't take a 4 year contract at $7M then I don't like the deal.
- GadesnSens

and that's my concern, because i think there is almost no chance that he'll take that deal.........and if ottawa tries to move him at the deadline, they aren't getting anything except picks and prospects, because anyone acquiring him, is only moving futures.

and that's my concern, because i think there is almost no chance that he'll take that deal.........and if ottawa tries to move him at the deadline, they aren't getting anything except picks and prospects, because anyone acquiring him, is only moving futures.
- sensarmy_11

I'm not sure to as to why you're so confident we will get a great return for Spezza. That's my main concern. Would be a black eye on the franchise to give up a point per game player for spare parts. Tell people all you want that they have tunnel vision for keeping Spezza, but it's just as naive to think we will get a killer trade that helps this team automatically. Very rarely do you see a star player moved and the pieces returned helped replace that player.

when are these stoopid play-offs over anyway .... I want to see some important hockey ......

September is a looooong way away

btw...... Bingo starts the play-offs Friday against WSP - Go BabySens Go

I'm not sure to as to why you're so confident we will get a great return for Spezza. That's my main concern. Would be a black eye on the franchise to give up a point per game player for spare parts. Tell people all you want that they have tunnel vision for keeping Spezza, but it's just as naive to think we will get a killer trade that helps this team automatically. Very rarely do you see a star player moved and the pieces returned helped replace that player.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i agree when you move them at the deadline....usually the return is just picks and prospects.

however, when you move them in the offseason, the return is usually pretty good.

jordan staal, bobby ryan, mike richards, jeff carter, chris pronger, etc. it's rare that stars are moved, but when they are moved in the offseason, the returns are usually pretty significant. the reason tehy aren't at the deadline is because usually the players are pending UFAs, and the teams acquiring them aren't willing to give up significant roster pieces in the middle of a playoff run.

i actually can't think of hardly any examples of star players, who were moved in the offseason, for a crappy return. maybe heatley, but that's not exactly the same situation here, and in hindsight, that deal was actually pretty good.